For more than three decades, Tomas Pettersson has been shaping the provocative and philosophical world of Ordo Rosarius Equilibrio, a project balancing between ritual, sensuality and existential reflection. On the occasion of the band’s return and a new cycle of releases titled “TRANS4M8”, we spoke with him about time, identity, war, art, belonging and the slow transformation of both the artist and the audience. What followed was a candid stream of thoughts on aging, culture and meaning in a rapidly dissolving modern world.
Tomas, it’s a pleasure to have you with us. Welcome to DEPART. I’ve been following your work since 2008, and it’s an honor to finally speak with you. Where do we find you at this moment — creatively, personally, or geographically?
Tomas Pettersson (Ordo Rosarius Equilibrio): Hello there. Geographically we are located in Boden (SE) since 2015. It’s a small inclement town approximately 1000 km north of Stockholm, only an hour south of the polar circle.
Creatively I am in the process of finalising our next albums. At first I planned to release a teaser EP as always and follow with a full-length album a few weeks later. But as things have changed, and as people’s attention spans are following the same degenerative tendencies as the media flow on Facebook or any other social platform, with people’s ability to commit and fully focus for a full 3 minutes, full-length albums have become obsolete and a waste of good resources. So for 6 years, more or less, I’ve abandoned the idea of another full-length album, and hence the new songs will be divided over 4 EPs with 6 songs on each release, titled “TRANS4M8” to symbolise the progression into what we have become.
Personally, I have been better. I just had a defibrillator implanted in my chest, so what can I say….
It has been 15 years since your last visit to Athens. Looking back at the journey from "Songs 4 Hate And Devotion" to "Nihilist Notes", how do you feel you have changed as a person? Would you say you’ve become more hopeful, more bitter, calmer, or simply more aware?
Yes, what have I become over the past 15 years? Isn’t that the question we all ask ourselves as we grow older and search for any sort of meaning? The so-called one-million-dollar question.
I’m not the same asshole I used to be I’m a different asshole at the very least. Older. Wiser. Tired. Hungry. Curious. Focused. Determined. I’m ok, I’d say, but life is life, there’s only so much you can control.
I remember reading an interview where you spoke about riding your bike to a record shop to buy Laibach’s "Krst Pod Triglavom". Today, music and art are instantly accessible. Do you find yourself looking back at those experiences as a deeper way of absorbing art, or are technological advances something you genuinely feel grateful for?
I think people from “my generation” (please excuse the expression and forgive how cheesy it sounds), and earlier generations too, have another understanding of music and the meaning it had. Music wasn’t just music, it was art. It was music presented together with artwork, a booklet, an idea, even an entire concept which the artist urged you to absorb and possibly understand. Nowadays, music is just sounds. Available always and almost everywhere. Like masturbation or McDonald’s.
It serves no deeper purpose, and you can always decide not to. Its only purpose is to fulfill the next 30 seconds with meaning and then you change direction. You get full and then you start over. I guess you can argue that this is just another way of absorbing art, but looking at my own children, it is quite obvious that they have no musical identity. They don’t ascribe a belonging to a specific genre which in turn reflects who they are. Music is just music. Sounds according to rhythm. You eat and you vomit only to eat more. They more willingly identify with some influencer or media personality found on YouTube or TikTok or some other social platform.
Do I feel grateful for this? I don’t know. I didn’t choose this, it’s just a consequence of my individual sperm being the best and fastest. But at length it does lay the foundation to what I’ve become. There’s a sense of belonging that I do not believe young people feel today; a belonging which has urged me to project myself into MY reflection of music and art, which over 30 years has become Ordo Rosarius Equilibrio.
The last few years people can be more open about sexuality in ways that were considered taboo in the past. Ordo Rosarius Equilibrio’s music was always vocal about lust and passion. Do you feel there is an obvious change towards a better tomorrow in this aspect? And do you fear it will make Ordo’s attack against moral conservatism obsolete if there’s no need to provoke those who feel uneasy at the mere reference of coitus?
Your idea is interesting, not to say funny. And I really like the notion that you seem to believe that our music attracts new younger listeners. I hope you are right. We are all part of a dying scene. Old people making music for old people. It’s a culture on life support. Maybe the acceptance of this fact is why I got a defibrillator implanted in my chest two weeks ago.
The artistic concept of Ordo Rosarius Equilibrio extends both above and below the context of sexuality and lust. What we embody is so much more. We ask questions. We challenge concepts. We question the meaning of life and faith. Of lust and indifference. Sometimes it hurts, sometimes it tingles. You are, however, correct, lust and passion have always been there, and so they will always be, and just as with our music; lust, fetish, sexuality and perversion will always be part of society, no matter the openness of whatever generation is holding the torch and leading the way through the dark.
So, I do not fear becoming obsolete as a result of young people being more sexually open. Especially not since statistics show that young people today engage less and less in sexual activity and pay more attention to platonic friendships. I think the greater risk is associated with the scene itself becoming obsolete since there is nobody coming from the shadows to fill all the empty chairs.
Once upon a time, you sang about thinking of “Germany And The End of The World”. Today, with discussions of an impending war becoming increasingly common, what occupies your thoughts now? Has your perspective shifted — or has the world simply caught up with those concerns?
War has always been an instrument of man and will always be. Kingdoms rise and fall. Societies blossom and wither. These are the cycles of everything. I do not relish the idea of war, but the concept of armed conflict is fascinating for historical, sociopolitical, cultural and geographical reasons. They normally go way back in time and resonate with deep-rooted problems not necessarily perceivable to the eyes of many. I have friends on both sides of the war in Ukraine that Putin decided to wage on European democracy, and their situations are different but still similar.
One dear friend is half Ukrainian. His father Ukrainian, his mother Russian by borders settled at that time. His sisters live in Ukraine, he himself in Russia. He hates the war, he hates the consequences it has enforced, he hates the mentality of his alleged kin and wants nothing to do with it. But nonetheless he is deemed Russian and consequently shunned and ghosted by former European friends who find it necessary to hate him for his passport and refuse to hear his soul.
Do I dread the idea of a third world war? Of course I do. I think we all do, as we are all more or less able to imagine the consequences of what it would bring. But I think the third world war has already happened. I think we are awaiting World War number 4. What we are unable to understand is that warfare 2000+ does not resemble our cemented idea of what war is. We still believe that war is an occurrence fought on the battlefield between soldiers who kill each other with guns. And of course, it still exists, but war today is fought by disinformation, rigged elections, inaugurated puppet presidents, cyber malware, troll factories, information breaches, strategic clandestine invasions. World War 3 has been ongoing for years, and when World War 4 comes, it will just be the culmination and definite end to life as we used to know it.
When you state “there is nothing to resent, we hate you all”, it feels deliberately ambiguous. Is this hatred metaphysical, directed at gods and structures, or is it deeply human, even self-reflective?
Is hate great? Everything I write is carefully considered, and highly deliberate. It’s likely to assume that I know what I mean, but in the end it’s up to you to decide what you think I mean. What you decide to believe is a whole lot more interesting.
What forms of art currently occupy your attention? Across music, cinema, literature, or visual arts, what has been shaping your inner landscape lately?
I am deeply fascinated by cosplay and hentai pornography. I listen mostly to dark electro such as Buzz Kull, Dancing Plague, Boy Deluxe, Patriarchy, SDH, Nights in Athens and on and on and on. And from a TV series perspective I watch “The Boys”, “Fallout”, “Supernatural” and “The Magicians”, just to mention a few. Literature… I can’t read.”
Your music has often brought to my mind images from “The Night Porter”. Are there other films that you feel resonate with or encapsulate the essence of your music and its emotional landscape?
Oh, thank you. What a nice cuddly reference. What other films can I name drop? Salon Kitty, Paprika, Singapore Sling, Martyrs…
Looking ahead to the near future, what lies on the horizon for you? Are there any new recordings or projects currently taking shape?
As I talked about earlier in this interview, there are 4 EPs coming up with a total of 24 new songs. Thereafter comes the almost mythical and long-awaited “4 Life 4 Love 4 Lust & Roses” EP after almost 25 years of delays. We also have the second “TriORE” album coming in time for our concert at Mithras Garden in Zwickau 2026. And after that we’ll just have to wait and see. Time will tell, it always does.
Tomas, it’s been a real pleasure speaking with you. Thank you for your time. I’ll leave the final words to you.
Porn is the new Black.
